MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

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Rodolfo
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MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Rodolfo » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:57 pm

(This is an issue that was posted in the iPad Musician group in Facebook and I managed to reproduce it exactly as described)

I tried to use all my drums apps with Auria Pro but could not manage to record MIDI from them in tight sync. In all cases there’s an offset of almost 1/16th note in all MIDI events at 120bpm.
I tried Ruismaker apps, DrumSession, DM1, DM2, Elastic Drums, BeatHawk, etc and the issue is consistent in all cases, so I believe it’s evidently related to Auria Pro MIDI implementation and not to any specific drums app.
I tried also different configurations, loading the apps as IAA instruments (the ones that support it) or with Core MIDI and the result is always the same, a small offset of almost 1/16th note.
In order to double check the problem I reproduced equivalent configurations in Cubasis and the sync is perfect, so I guess this would proove my assumption that the issue is in the Auria Pro side.

I’m attaching some pictures with an example setup with RuisMaker FM:
-Auria Pro is clock master and Ruismaker slaved to it
-A simple MIDI pattern is programmed in Ruismaker FM
-MIDI track in Auria Pro using Core MIDI to record MIDI output from Ruismaker FM
-Ruismaker FM loaded in an audio track in Auria Pro to record audio output

You can easily see the offset in both audio and MIDI in Auria Pro and the same example with aparent perfect sync in Cubasis.

Questions:
Is anybody aware of this issue? (@Rim? @Corey?)
If not, could you please try to reproduce it?
If yes, is there any known workaround for this?

Thanks for your help.
Attachments
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Anthony Alves
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Re: MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Anthony Alves » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:53 pm

Is Cubasis set to auto quantize? Quick way to fix this is to select all and quantize the midi track and then record the audio.
Last edited by Anthony Alves on Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rodolfo
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Re: MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Rodolfo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:07 am

Anthony Alves wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:53 pm
From what I can see from the screenshots your midi track in AuriaPro are not quantized to the beat where in Cubasis it is. So everything looks as it should. Try quantizing your midi track after your recording or manually snap the notes to the grid. Then run your audio test. You can also bounce a track in place instead of loading the midi app into an audio channel.Also in your midi settings in AuriaPro you are not sending notes to your app. You dont need to sent MMC or MTC to the app as the app doesnt respond to these commands only midi clock and midi notes need to be sent to the app.
Thank you bery much for your answer, Anthony.

I’ll go point by point to each of your suggestions:
-I’m not quantizing anything in Cubasis, although the screen shows 1/16th note setting, it is turned off, so it did not actually performed any quantize action, both MIDI AND audio tracks were recorded in realtime.
-I know I can quantize the track after recording it, or manually snap it to the grid, but that’s not a good solution for realtime sync as you can clearly hear the drums out of sync with the clock while playing the drum patterns.
-The bounce in place only works for IAA (or AU) instruments, which is not the case for Ruismaker FM, that’s why I’m using a MIDI track with Core MIDI (and audio track just to show that the audio is also offset by the same amount). Again, this is not valid for realtime playing/recording.
-As you well noticed, I’m not sending any notes to Ruismaker, since the drum patterns are programmed inside Ruismaker (that’s the idea of this type of setup, programing the drums in the the drums app as it is usually easier and more conenient than doing it in the DAW). Again, the only possible scenario for realtime playing.
-Finally, in this particular case you are absolutely right, MTC and MMC do not make any difference since Ruismaker FM doesn’t respond to these commands. I had been testing other drum apps and those switches remained on, but if I turn them off the result is the same.

I managed to reduce the sync offset by a little bit after setting the buffer in Auria to 64, but as you can imagine that’s not a viable solution in any case. However in Cubasis, buffer can be set to any value without affecting the perfect sync you can see in the picture.

I also know that there are some workarounds for doing this offline, as I usually program my drums offline and then export audio stems (kick, snare, hihat, etc) and import them in Auria Pro. I use Auria Pro exclusively for mixing and mastering but not for producing as I find other apps more suitable for this. The thing is that many people use their DAWs to record some long live jams with drums programmed in the fly in their drums machines of preference, and it is assumed that the DAW should be able to record their performances in perfect sync. Cubasis can do it without further work or MIDI editing (that’s one of the reasons live musicians prefer Cubasis or AUM+sequencer over Auria), so I believe there’s something wrong with the MIDI sync timing in Auria Pro.

As an additional comment, there are about 10K people in the iPad Musician group in Facebook, most Devs are also actively participating there but very few Auria power users capable of helping other users. Most people in that forum are really harsh with Auria and complain about the lack of support, lack of tutorials, lot of bugs with IAA/AU plugins and few maintenance updates. As an Auria Pro user myself (my preferred DAW) I always try to answer their questions, suggest workflows, find workarounds, etc. but sometimes (as in this case) I just can’t. I could manage to exactly reproduce what a user pointed out so I came here for reporting what I consider to be a MiDI sync issue that needs to be addressed by the dev.
I’ve had very little feedback in this forum (none in some case) when I report things like this one, so I appreciate very much the time you spent in answering, Anthony.

Maybe -as the Facebook user- I’m also doing something wrong, it’s just that the issue is not present in Cubasis and I would really like to show him (and other users) that it can be easily done in Auria too.

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Rodolfo
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Re: MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Rodolfo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:12 am

Anthony Alves wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:53 pm
Is Cubasis set to auto quantize? Cheers.
No, it’s OFF. When it’s ON you can read “AutoQ” just below the selected grid number.

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Anthony Alves
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Re: MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Anthony Alves » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:07 am

Yes I just tested this and I get the same results as you do. I did test with drum perfect as an IAA and it recorded the audio in perfect timing. I understand your setup well , Ive used that before. I replicated your setup and Ruismaker does not seem to line up. So there could be a problem. As for help in our forum. We try when we can. I did have a ton of videos on using Auria but the support was very little even though it had more than 500,000 views and was up for 7 yrs I only ended having 1,750 subcribers so I cancelled the channel last week. Even Wavemachine labs facebook page only linked to one of my videos in all those yrs. I put alot of work making those video tutorials. Many people are afraid to help as some users a very upset and personally attack you. I know its happened to me. Good luck.

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Rodolfo
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Re: MIDI Sync offset with Drum machine apps

Post by Rodolfo » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:30 am

Anthony Alves wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:07 am
Yes I just tested this and I get the same results as you do. I did test with drum perfect as an IAA and it recorded the audio in perfect timing. I understand your setup well , Ive used that before. I replicated your setup and Ruismaker does not seem to line up. So there could be a problem. As for help in our forum. We try when we can. I did have a ton of videos on using Auria but the support was very little even though it had more than 500,000 views and was up for 7 yrs I only ended having 1,750 subcribers so I cancelled the channel last week. Even Wavemachine labs facebook page only linked to one of my videos in all those yrs. I put alot of work making those video tutorials. Many people are afraid to help as some users a very upset and personally attack you. I know its happened to me. Good luck.
Anthony, thank you again for taking the time to test it. I know your videos very well, excellent all of them, I used them in some ocasions as examples or help for other users. I was also subscribed to your Studio A channel, too sad that it’s no longer there...
And you are right, I’ve been attacked sometimes too...
Thanks again for your help.

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